09/26/09

Lurapets

subeta

Update

Since posting this, it has attracted the attention of the Lurapets staff, which I’m not ashamed of. However, I’d like to warn anyone who is going to take the time to read the comments to just read the first few comments, because that’s generally how the entire thread goes.

To those of you coming from other sites, or from the Lurapets staff, I urge you to please be cautious because you’re not just responding to me, you’re responding in a capacity that all of your members can be. Choose your words wisely.

A couple of months ago, specifically July, I had the thought to write a post about Lurapets, and the similarities to Subeta. I’m no stranger to other sites ideas, and incorporating them into my own site. For example, recently we took an incredibly popular feature of Twitter (the @username) function, and incorporated it into our forums, and called it “pinging”. It alerts you when you’ve been called to a thread.

This is an example of taking an idea, and building on it. Making it your own. Another example is the ‘Human Avatar’ feature, that is similar to the avatar function on Gaia. We saw the potential to change Pet Sites forever (to our credit, it has. Find a virtual pet site without an avatar dress up game now ;) ) and tried to find ways to build on it. You can layer, we make extensive uses of ‘hexes’, and other modifications to the general idea that have carried onto the entire industry.

We use ideas (and I have no problem saying so) and we build on them, making them our own. We make sure that they aren’t blatant rip-offs that just scream to have a blog post like this written about them.

Now, I told myself that it wasn’t worth it to write the Lurapets post. There are currently 33 people online on Lurapets, compared to the 655 on Subeta. I’m not concerned about Lurapets being competition, because frankly, it’s not. I don’t expect Lurapets to be competition anytime in the future, because their entire business plan is copying everything that Subeta does so we will always be one foot ahead of them. Rather, we will always be miles ahead of them.

Here are just some examples of things that I noticed are Lurapets that feel… familiar.

Monthly Collectables

Screen shot 2009-09-26 at 1.03.20 AMScreen shot 2009-09-26 at 1.02.02 AM

The first image is of the news post for the September 2009 Collections, which are a monthly present filled with a selection of 10 items. The second image is of Lurapets adding a September Collectible (at the end of September, no less!) which appears to contain 11 items.

To be fair, we just started doing the 10 item collections at the start of this year, in January. Prior to that, we had a 15 item ‘donation present’ that contained 15 items and you got one at random.

Three Birds, One Stone

Screen shot 2009-09-26 at 1.08.57 AM

I’m going to knock a few things out with just this one image, which is handy. First, and foremost, Subeta was the first site to incorporated the ‘hover’ feature for items. This has been a feature for years, though recently we updated it to use AJAX and call the data as you hover over to save the page from loading hundreds of item data on page-load. Older browsers tend to not like that.

Screen shot 2009-09-26 at 1.10.11 AM

Another important thing to recognize from this post is the costume trunk idea. I can’t claim that Subeta was the first thing to ever have a costume trunk, because that’d be incorrect. However, we were the first site with human avatars to incorporate this into a cash shop. That mermaid trunk seems familiar… Oh wait, that’s right!

And finally, the last issue with this screen shot is the cash shop.

Screen shot 2009-09-26 at 1.17.41 AM

Magical Pet Collar (which increases your pet slots) and the Premium Star Plushie. Now, I’ve never had a problem with “gold accounts” or “diamond accounts” or “premium accounts”, or anything like that. Subeta was the first site in our industry with that functionality, but it’s fairly common and has been a staple of the internet since it started. However, that in combination with the rest of the items in this cash shop (including the magical pet collar) which are all essentially copied from the Subeta Cash Shop is what makes it pretty obvious what is going on here. Another thing is the ability to have your own custom item, but in that respect I actually feel poorly for the Lurapets team because it’s something is very difficult to pull off (We’d know, we’ve tried it… twice ;) )

In Conclusion

All of this post, the things mentioned, have for the most part been posted today on Lurapets, with the exception of the Premium Accounts and the Magical Pet Collar. What that means is that they are still not done copying Subeta. They are still not content with being a ripoff and have to continue pushing themselves into that corner.

I challenge any member of Lurapets to post a piece of original content on Lurapets, that cannot be found on another site.

Beyond all of that, I hope that I won’t have to be writing about Lurapets again. That means that, Ken, if my friends start getting Deviantart messages again (as I see that you’ve started to send them out again!) I will call you out. And it won’t be on virtualpetlist, I will call you out so that your members see it. That is seriously dirty and something that not only hurts your reputation, but your sites reputation, and all of the people that work for you. Last time you did this, I remember your staff spending a lot of time sticking up for the site itself, that they’d invested a lot of time, energy, and value as far as art is concerned, into. I hope you are more respectful to the community this time around.

K, I’m not really done.

One more little bit. I’m not against competition, or there being more sites in the virtual pet community. I welcome it. That’s why I haven’t said anything about Lurapets up until this point. I’ve been secretly praying that they’ll maybe branch off and start coming up with things original to their site. That’s why I rarely discuss or comment on other virtual pet sites, because it’s not my place. I run my site, and I’m incredibly fortunate to be doing that and be so successful at it.

The reason I am posting this is because I’ve seen Lurapets keep stealing from my site from day one. This is content that we have worked hard on for years to develop, and have hired and paid staff to help create. The majority of this isn’t something that we stole from someone else, or spent a day throwing together. This is an ongoing issue and something that I take personal offense to. I could have put together forty more examples if I had the time or patience to browse Lurapets.
If you’re a member, I suggest you read this thread at SubetaDrama. If you aren’t a member, I suggest you sign up ;) .

XOXO
Keith Kurson

(Please excuse any grammar/spelling errors, not only is it not my forté but it’s 1:30AM)

  • iCountess
    I'm kind of sick of people talking about how stupid the blog post is and how unprofessional it makes him, etc. Because, it's not a blog for Subeta directly. It is a personal blog abut Keith Kurson who happens to be the owner of Subeta. He should be able to rant about whatever the hell he wants. Whether or not it be nit-picky, or completely biased. It's a blog. It's a place to post exactly how one feels or thinks about things. And he has done that. So get over it.

    I do agree that it is extremely similar, and you (Keith) should have the right to feel upset and angry, and blog all you want about it. But, I also agree that it is quite hard to become original when Subeta has already taken every good idea ever. ;P A lot of ideas posted in this aren't exactly the most UNIQUE things, and a billion sites have them.

    But whether we like the post or not, it is completely your right to rant about anything you please.
  • randomer
    I completely agree. I joined lurapets when it opened but quickly gave up a couple of hours later when i saw it was almost a complete copy of other petsite *cough*ichumon*cough*subeta*cough* shouldn't the whole point of making a new petsite be to make it different?
  • Very delayed reading and reply, hope it's OK to do so. I actually found this kind of amusing because I was on Laurapets BEFORE subeta. I had been floating around virtual petsites for years. Big names, little names, in between...I've played them all. I was even on subeta WAY back in the day when it was brand new (sorry I am picky and it didn't fit what I was looking for back then...so account was eventually deleted, not to mention since you guys moved blah blah...anyway).

    I was actually surprised to read this and I wanted to go back to LP and check it out to see if it was still going on...shockingly (*cough*) I cannot locate it. But I'll research that more later.

    Ultimately I want to just say thank you for actually taking the time to make things in subeta different than other places, even if they are similar. I know a lot of it goes to the staff working with dedication to making new content/ideas come alive on there (so pass that along as well since I don't post it enough in the feedback area sometimes). This is the ONLY pet site (since I was 14 and neopet addicted) I have stuck around with for longer than a few weeks since it has SO much you can do on it. Heck, I have friends who completely loathe virtual petsites who play and enjoy it. :p

    I'm sad other places have tried to rip off ideas and make a profit from stuff the staff at subeta worked on, but I suppose it isn't really shocking. In the end, I hope nothing to *this* degree happens again. Really not fun having to watch...OK maybe a little fun after it's all over...but that isn't the point.
  • Keith, you're amazing. Truly. Your site is wonderful and if Lurapets wants to rip you off, then so be it.. At least your staff, community, and its users will know what's really going on. I'm in full support for Subeta, and I'll always be a loyal user. I wouldn't mind what anyone has to say negatively. Obviously, they're pretty defensive for their own reasons, I'm sure. lol
  • lalala
    Oh god, this is disgusting. Seriously, subeta IS one step foward than Lurapets, hence they just started. First human avatar? pfft, I'd guess gaia was the first. And gaia didn't say anything about YOU copying it from them. You adapted them, well, Lura adapted from you.
    I know this comment is a bit late, but I have to give you my opinion about this.

    Lurapets is going nice and well now, do you HAVE to start a drama? Keith, I admit Subeta is awesome and cool, but from what I see now here, my mind about you, kinda boomed.
    Why, you can't say the first site who created the register page said EVERY petsite copied it. The human avatar will go on, start from now.
    Every petsite can draw mermaids, why big deal? I am not a Lura staff, but a member. I would love to join Subeta, but I'm just too lazy to register and activate my account.
    I'm not trying to make such a drama myself tho, I don't even know why I posted this.
    I know that you stayed calm at first, but please just keep being calm. Try messaging the owner of Lurapets NICELY.

    If you wanted to tell (lots of) petsite owners out there(that uses the same feature as you made), who would believe you? Some petsites would thought that THEY we're the first, and more drama is on. Agreeing of TheBernMan's post, you can't be first or last. Everything was made to be copy. Don't be kid to yourself Keith, trying to blabbermouth to the world like you blabbermouth to your mother that your friend copies everything for you. Perhaps Lura IS wrong, copying from you, but the time will go on. More petsites will start doing the same thing, and what can you do about it? Making those petsites' reputation bad? Starting more drama?
    Goodluck Keith.
  • Name
    Let's face it. Lurapets is a very new, very young site, and in such early days, it's rather difficult to come up with something that hasn't been done before.
    All petsites operate on the same basic template. Lots of petsites have similar features.
    It will take time for a new website to grow into something of it's own, as well as support, help and input from its userbase.
    Instead of condeming Lurapets for being the same, why not try and help it grow into something more?
  • Spiegel
    So lets see.... there isn't anything new to the site? How about you look at its recent features.
  • LoL
    I guess they are making an attempt to show they have the ability to create things Subeta doesn't have. Bravo
  • Rev
    Stealing lura's idea was low, keith. I expected you to be the better person but instead you stooped to their level and did exactly what you claim you hated. I've lost all my respect for you because of that stupid decision.
  • Name
    Actually it was off of other sites. but i know what you mean this was pretty sad.
  • keithkurson
    1. If you continue to respond to yourself, I'm going to oust you ;).

    2. We didn't copy any ideas. We've had status's on the site for over a year (which, is the feature I believe you're talking about @lura) and beyond that, I don't think they feed anything besides status's?
  • revopets
    I think what bothers him the most is LuraPets is taking ideas ONLY from Subeta, not changing them, not coming up with their own, and not taking ideas from anywhere else. I don't blame him for being frustrated.
  • Serena
    What can I say. What can I say.
    Bravo.
    That was fabulous to read.
    I must say as a staff 'team' we do tumble quite a bit.
    You guys are proving Keith's point and being undermined by each other at every turn.
    I must say no one completely lied but then again I do admit 'OMG WE GOTTA COPY SUBETA SRS SRS AMG' is a tad of an overstatement.
    So we all now rely on Angel as she back and is as you may have said, 'Queen of Lurapets.' She's organized and I think she'll do fine.
  • Mitch_M
    Thank you, Serena
  • Spiegel
    And why are you saying Thanks, Mitch? You claiming that you're Angel?
  • Mitch_M
    No. Serena said "Bravo. That was fabulous to read." in response to my post.
  • LoL
    It's funny that someone thinks I'm Zarabeth. *gives a shoutout* If I were her... I bet I'd have more to say.
  • Spiegel
    Lmfao. Zara has her own issues. Let me tell you what, she loves to lielielie all about her staff and artists. ;D
  • Mitch_M
    I am disgusted at how some of the Lurapets staff members have conducted themselves on here. I myself am a staff member on Lurapets, and how fellow members have used immature remarks and pitiful comebacks to try and put yourself and Subeta down is simply ridiculous.

    I have read through most of the comments featured on this blog, and while I wish I could stick up for Lurapets, I don't feel that I could stay 100% truthful in my attempt to do so. First off, I must say that Joy makes our entire team look bad. Not only does she feel the need to create drama and make a big deal out of anything and everything that comes along, she talks out of her ass and says whatever it is she thinks sounds "tough" and doesn't give a crap of how unprofessional it makes Lurapets look. I will admit that I have never played Subeta, so, when I joined Lurapets, most of the content seemed fresh and original to me. However, after investigating several of the claims made by not only Subeta, but other sites as well, I can see that Lurapets was definitely -not- original.

    I wish I could defend those members on the Lurapets Staff Forums that made posts like "Subeta did this, so we should too", but they are most definitely dumb and do not appreciate hard work. We have some very creative members on our staff team, and we are very capable of sitting down and brainstorming some excellent content that is original to Lurapets, but it seems that those members with a higher amount of influence would rather see content which has proven successful on other sites be included in ours, in hopes that Lurapets too, would be successful.

    In the future, I can only hope that our team and our site will prosper and that we may start releasing some of the original content that I know has been contributed yet thus far, ignored.

    I wish Subeta the best.
  • Name
    You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. Joy may have a certain attitude for those who go against the site/people she loves. But that's the way some people react when they feel their loved ones are being attacked. Do you even know who Joy is personally? Do you know what she does for the Lura Staff? I bet you're not even with Lura staff. Since they have never said such things nor have they gone around doing all they can to copy other sites. That would be so stupid word's cannot describe.

    If I had the choice, I would rather follow Joy as a friend then anyone else I've seen here. And it's pretty sad that people like you, Mitch go around making false statements hurting people who don't deserve it.

    Mitch_M, whoever this jerk is, is NOT part of Lura staff. Making up rumors and starting more drama is all they want. Spreading lies and rumors disgusts me...
  • Joy
    Thank you for the support guys. It all means a lot.

    About the posts made by LoL and Mitch_M, I honestly couldn't care less about what they have to.

    Like Neko stated, no one in the team has posted anything about us copying Subeta. So that was a flat out lie.

    Anyways... I know I may seem to lash out but that's only because I'm protecting the things and people I love (Like "Name" said). There are people on the staff team who are so amazing you wouldn't believe how wonderful they are. Angel, Neko, Brooklyn and Kth are just of the few people who I feel shouldn't be judged based upon all this... So yeah, I did cross the line and went against Keith. I'm not ashamed of it... I never will be. It's who I am. If people like Mitch and LoL are willing to go around shooting snide remarks about me I say let them. In the end people will see who I am, who I really am, and they'll understand that these two are examples of the one's who want nothing but to hurt us.

    This is all getting out of hand so I wont be coming here anymore. It's not worth my time anymore. I'm sorry to see that things have gotten so out of hand.
  • LoL
    Bravo to you! I, for one, appreciate the honesty. Joy's been moved around quite a bit in the staff hasn't she? mod to admin to writer and a few more? Wasn't she fired as well? I know she's been banned elsewhere for issues she's created... But I guess it doesn't matter to Ken since his rep is so trashed too. Oh well. Thanks for the post!
  • Alex
    She was only banned on misticpets due to the dramatic owner over there. Whom would ban someone based on suspicion rather then facts. Jamez, once an old member, would know all about this.

    I dont care who you are, but joy isnt what youre trying to make her come out to be. Anyone who read Mitch's comment, I wouldnt believe any word of it if I were you.
  • LoL
    It's kind of funny that you can say it was someone elses fault.. Joy was on her 6th or 7th account by that time? That is way too many chances as it was. I was a member back when her and her sisters got banned and she had to start over with the Joy account. Lost the site for a bit of time, and came back to find her banned once more. Definitely got a good laugh.
  • Name
    lol, u just wont stop lying will u.
  • LoL
    And Jamez still has a pretty active account.... funny thing
  • Name
    only because you realized your mistake soon after and got him his account back. if you check the id of his shop you would be able to tell that wasnt his first account. u know that, zara.
  • LoL
    Mistic's dramatic owner? I think they have always showed pretty high class in the situations they've dealt with. Way more than I can say about Miss Joy and a vast majority of the staff of Lurapets.
  • Spiegel
    If you call firing a dedicated head artist that was there BEFORE her time, then BANNING them from saying good bye to staff then LIEING to her staff saying he left

    THEN YEAH. I guess thats classy
  • Name
    LoL i figured this was zarabeythe when i first read the coments

    you've always had it in for joy since last summer for whatever reason/ go make something of your self and keep out of the business of others
  • Person
    Joy was the head of mods before, I think. Then she became a writer and now she's an admin again, as of yesterday. I'm probably one of the oldest staff if you don't consider me leaving for a while, haha. I was staff in... er, May 2008? I don't really remember, but it's been at least a year if not more. But I gotta admit I had no idea about any of the drama mentioned here nor seen any of it happen, as in things like "we gotta copy Subeta!"

    @Mitch: I've no idea which staff member you are, but aren't you kind of doing what you were disgusted with Lura staff doing right now? I know you're frustrated with some of the things said here by the other Lura staff, I am too. I'm one of their artists. But I think saying "Joy makes the entire team look bad and talks out of her ass" is going over the top, I'm sure you could very easily just talk with her about it. But also I do agree that the staff should - well, not just the staff, but everyone who posted here - keep the profanities and pointless comments to themselves. I don't know why it's so hard for people.

    I just want peace.
  • LoL
    back to admin? Wow... I probably won't be logging back in then. That's scary!
  • Name
    I'm glad you wont be logging in. The less people like you around the better.
  • LoL
    LoL great response! Less page views, less ad revenue, less credit shop customers! Way to go Lurapets!
  • Name
    Who said Im from lura? I only play Subeta. But I know joy and honestly she deserves better then this.
  • LoL
    I'm very glad that you are confident in the black and white fabric of your world. But please be aware, there are shades of gray that exist out there. Joy has definitely reaped what she has sown, and with no apologies, she continues to be a despicable example of human nature at every turn. Great staff image!
  • Name
    it is sad that u would go about saying stuff like that about her when you yourself are showing an example of disrespect. joy posted and she didn make as much as a fuss as u are
  • tchequila
    Surely a good support staff member would try to not alienate the users they're serving, with useless drama?

    Because, otherwise, some users could doubt neutrality when they're in the moderation position.

    Right?
  • Joy is not an admin, she is a writer and works under me. She was given admin rights to the staff forums only to help with some organization and that is all. She does not have admin rights of any kind to the main site. That's all I'll say on her.

    But to Mitch, please show me where you found said staff saying "Subeta does this, so we should too." There may have been times that an idea was brought up that was similar to another site and someone pointed it out that it would need to be changed to not be the same. Many ideas are generic, so a DOZEN sites will have the same idea.
    We wanted undead pets for Halloween that is coming up. Subeta has a graveyard potion, so we didn't want to make it a color to be changed by our orbs (similar to Subeta's potions, Neopets Paintbrushes, ect.... we had to have something). As for the graveyard existing elsewhere, this I did not know. Some petsites never kept my attention like Subeta and Lurapets do. So I apologize to those owners.

    I have been on staff for a year and the Writer Admin for eight months. I manage the current forums as I was the one who set it up after the incident in April. I do what I can to keep the staff as organized as possible. Drama comes and goes, some members come and go, but we still have a handful that have been there since the beginning. My name here is the same name on-site, and it is also the same name on Twitter in which I have had friendly conversations with Keith about places in the state we both live and a few times about World of Warcraft. We don't talk about our pet-sites as that is not the kind of conversations I want to revolve around my Twitter friends.
    So Mitch and other hidden "staff", if you are truly on-board, it won't be hard to find me.

    I know some of our members have spoke out of hand and acted hot-headed. I posted about that last night so there is no need to repeat myself (scroll up if you missed it).

    To Keith, I apologize for the drama some of our citizens have brought to your blog. But I don't take it lightly for people to claim to work with me but hide who they are to spread internal lies. Hopefully, we can continue to be Twitter-pals. BTW, did you go to Neptune Fest?
  • LoL
    Neko, how does it feel as admin and lead forum organizer to have Angel come back and be the 'savior'? Why weren't you able to keep the updates coming? I understand that being "Queen of Lurapets" is quite a thing to live up to, and its' a wonder the site managed at all without her the last few months, but I wonder how the rest of the underling staff feel? And why wasn't the (supposed King?) Ken able to keep it together?
  • Serena
    Ahaha. I love how Keith fan girls are like 'OMGOMGOMOMG, YOU ARE SOO RIGHT FOR POSTING YOUR OPINIONS SRS AMG GO KEITH!'

    Anyways. I'm sure my points have been taken. Cash shop, MC items, blah blah, not the first. Why don't you just drop this? Like really, not only will lura be around but so will other sites like ___pets.com with a HA system and pets. If I were you, I'd concentrate on making your site better and pocketing more money. I'm being frankly honest, if you don't think Lurapets is competition than why bother making a whole blog bout' it.
  • jessyta
    Why should he have to drop it? Besides, multiple people unrelated to either petsite had asked him to do this months ago...

    Keith has a great team of people working for him, so he doesn't have to spend 24/7 concentrating on how to improve his site. I am sure if Lurapets sticks around, Ken will also learn the importance of having dependable staff to help him...
  • just me
    Lurapets newest innovative feature... *heavy sarcasm* Stolen from Rescreatu! LoL their graveyard feature has been around for years. so glad they are reaching far to be so unique :P
  • Person
    Anyone can think of a graveyard that makes pets the graveyard color if underfed.. xD; Come on now.
  • just me
    and the lura staff could have reached just a ltittle further and done something unique with it. :p
  • All I have to say Keith is good on you for posting your opinion. Fuck anyone who sees this as whining or unbusiness like, this is your personal blog and your right to say anything you want on it. There is no denying that lurapets has caused you quite a bit of a headache.
    I'm proud of you for sticking it out in the open and exposing what has been going on instead of ignoring that it exists.
    <3!
  • I see your points, but we are not trying to be copycats. Some ideas will be the same and we are doing what we can to make them different. But like mentioned before, we all know names and ideas cannot be claimed under copyright.
    We do have a lot planned that I personally feel is original since in my 2 years with Subeta, I have not seen them. I do hope your "insiders" are not sending you our potential ideas, but I am sure you are better than that. But then again, the last "insider" that we caught, was kicked from staff.
    We just went through a hard time due to our organizer having some life-trauma. Without her we kind of hit a rut and things didn't progress as planned. She's well and back and we are back on track and our hopeful "original ideas" will be good ones. You've had some hard times I know. I remember the programmer issue with the original site address. Shit happens to the best of us.
    Sure, we have some hot-headed individuals on staff, but a lot of us are still great people. Just like I know you can be on both sides too. We've chatted through Twitter before and you gave me some places to see when I was in Roanoke for the first time.
    One thing I will point out (since no one else has) I don't see on Subeta a 15 level mission to get one of three colors for pets. Sure sure, you'll say there is the the one for celestial and hydra pets, but they are not identical.
    We do have flash games and I think at one point you mentioned no need for flash games on Subeta. That is different!
    We are working on a new layout to get away from the Subeta-ness that people are tagging it to.

    If you really want a mature conversation, one on one, I live less than 15mins from you in VAB. I'd be glad to clear up any controversies or give explanations on things in detail.
  • Joy
    -Loves Neko for posting this-
    Yeah Keith sorry about the post on VPL. Since we opened we've been working hard to keep away from this, you accusing us of stealing "your" idea's. It was like being kicked in the back when I read your post. Especially after getting through with all the drama the week before.

    I still feel that this blog shouldn't have been posted the way it was without you at least coming to us first. We're willing to talk if you are. Angel, Neko and several others are more then happy to work something out with you if it means you'll start believing that Lurapets (honestly) wants nothing to do with Subeta. Either your "Insider" was lying to you about us even mentioning subeta in our staff forums or you miss read somehow. I look back and I have yet to find a forum anywhere that mentions your name or your sites name.

    Let it be known that there are items and wearables that are backstage with us that you have come out with that look exactly like ours. But you don't see us going at you like this... We don't even go on about it over msn or in private conversations. Most of the staff at Lurapets expected some sort of relief from this pointless drama. Like someone else said in your comments - come to us before making accusations.

    I still don't fully understand the part about Ken. There's nothing wrong with him going out looking for artists over DA just as long as he pays for their art. And so far he has. Even with college/work taking up 80% of his time.
  • tchequila
    I still don't fully understand the part about Ken. There's nothing wrong with him going out looking for artists over DA just as long as he pays for their art. And so far he has. Even with college/work taking up 80% of his time.



    The problem I have with Ken is not than he is looking for artists on DeviantArt

    But, the fact he copy/pasta the SAME message to dozens of artists, without looking at descriptions or anything, you know. Like, to see if they're already working for a petsite. Subeta doesn't allow its artists to work for more than one petsite, yet at least four active artists got the same message from Ken.

    For me, it seems rather unprofessional, and not the sort of behavior I wish to see from an employer.


    I will make an analogy with hockey, because this is what I know best, but you cannot ask for a player in another team to join you while the contract is active. Or, even a coach or whatever. It's against league rules.

    Think of petsites the same ways. Like, Neopets are the New York Rangers....I said no more hockey analogies, k.
  • keithkurson
    Oh gosh, I'd be afraid I'd get stabbed or something! No, just kidding ;)

    Did you have fun in Roanoke when you went? It's SO nice there. If I was interested in living in a small city, I'd probably already be packing to move somewhere in northern virginia.
  • LOL No I wouldn't stab you . I am not a big fan of violence to begin with. I try to be as peaceful as possible, including on all petsites I play.
    I would hope nobody on Lura thinks that Da'Neko is an evil Admin *shifty eyes*

    Ya, Roanoke was fun. Might go visit in the winter like you suggested if funding looks good.
  • Name
    I agree about this not being posted here. It was goig to start drama in the long run...
  • anonymouse
    Where the hell else would it have been posted? Seriously.

    Also, samefag. At least try and use a different name (no pun intended) if you're going to try and rally on your own behalf.
  • Name
    um, what?
  • Name
    Tbh this probably shouldn't have been posted. Keith knew it would cause trouble, he's not stupid, but posted it anyhow. Yes blogs are for venting but when Lura is starting out new and working to get their site going it just seems, to me, that Keith was just being a bully here. He should have just gone to Ken or the staff instead of... doing this.

    Whoever "Just me" is, honestly I think you're wrong about the staff/members of Lura. I've watched them and they have actually been very kind and helpful to those who need it. From sending them a link to a helpsite to giving them items. One even sent me a Fire Orb for my pet - No I didn't know anyone over there. I just told them I really wanted an orb in my newbie forum and I got one. :P
  • Bikuu
    I'm extremely positive Ken has been addressed to this situation multiple times. I know I've brought it up myself to him. He was unbelievably rude on every occasion, so I really wouldn't blame Keith for not even bothering to go to him. :/

    But I really am glad to know that you have been treated well. I hope that continues.
  • keithkurson
    Ken and I have actually talked before, and it's never really been constructive.
  • Name
    Just try and work something out, again? Because a few days after i joined i found that a couple staff members there were really dedicated to the just as much as subeta's staff. It isn't fair that they also have to suffer because they happen to love the Ken they know or the site they love.

    I mean... what if the tables were turned. Ken might be very tempted to accuse you of such but the people he works with (angel and nekasuro) would prevent it from happening.

    idk... i guess i just find all of this a bit unfair for the users who just want to play and enjoy both sites.
  • just me
    I guess bribes work wonders :p

    Glad to see you've been treated well, but there are many others who haven't been. They, like me stick to sites where they can be treated fairly, (like Misticpets and Subeta).
  • Hawkie
    Keith get over yourself and I mean that in the nicest way possible, I mean yeah some of the ideas are unoriginal, but seriously what pet sites are unique these days? ...not many. But my point is making this blog did not make the situation any better. I am not for lurapets either I know Ken be a giant ass whole and what he did to Ole was despicable and probably ruined his and his sites rep. However the staff there is a amazing and this post hurts them the most,I know I am friends with most of them. I really don't wanna get involved in the matter I am just putting in my 2 cents.
  • anonymouse2
    Ken is disgusting. There is nothing else to it. I played Lurapets for like, two days and the way the staff ran the plays was laughable.

    Also, the point is not originality. It's true that it is very hard to come by an 'original' idea. The point is elaborating upon those common ideas to make them original. Lurapets has done nothing of the sort and I doubt ever will.
  • anonymouse
    *place oops, typos.
  • just me
    What a series of contradictions! You chose to involve yourself when you posted. :P Keith posted his 2 cents in HIS own blog about his personal feelings over Ken and his site... and now you've kept it going with your own input. I wasn't aware of drama with Ole, (that is Ichumon, right?) I'm a mistic player, and sometimes go to Subeta. I tried Lurapets, but was run off by the staff :p
  • Name
    What's wrong with the staff, may I ask? :x Just wanting to know.
  • just me
    They are very clique-ish, and it seems the only members they are interested in helping are those that have been buying from the cash shop. If you haven't, or if you are just starting out... you aren't worth their time. They favor many of their friends over regular players and it is just really off-putting.
  • Name
    I don't understand why any of this was needed?
  • tezeti
    Though I've been a member for a little under 5 years, I never frequented Subeta until fairly recently and, thus, was rather unaware that any third-party was engaging in large-scale copying. Upon reading this blog post, I instantly logged back in to my account on Lurapets and was extremely disappointed, to say the least. The bulk of their website does, indeed, seem to be an imitation of Subeta and I doubt I will play Lurapets in any large-scale capacity after observing so much duplication.
  • Michael
    Personally, lurapets bores me quite a bit. Yes their art is very beautiful, but it does lack orginality for me. I have seen them with VERY similar ideas to ichumon, another upcoming site who come up with pretty original ideas, and it seems as though lura is a poor man's subeta or ichumon. for me.:/
  • My goodness. I hardly think Keith (however, I can not speak FOR him) meant for all of this to blow up like it did. If it had been anyone but Keith posting this (and ANY member of Subeta, or for that matter Lurapets had the justification to do so) no one would have made a second glance. Keith is a human being like all of us and frankly, its refreshing to see his passion for Subeta. So he's defending the hard work and determination of his staff. To me, that shows damn good character. At least he isn't rolling over and allowing it to happen.
    Keith, you've handled this wonderfully and with brilliant maturity. I'm sure you've given Lura the right shove in the direction of creativity and originality with all of this. Well, one can only hope. ;D
  • Once you on top everyone tries to take your shine. Subeta has unique features and Lurapets is still new. Marapets copied Neopets and look at them now. I'm not saying anyone is copying anyone but the way I see it, someone needs to change the way they post news and features, also; checking a competitor's status is cool because it gives you ideas but copying is not cool.
  • Lurapets staff, classy as ever. Ken sure knows how to pick the winners! Oh and thanks for proving our points about how uncivil and ridiculous the whole lot of you are. And yes I mean the entire lot because as the site staff you represent the entire website. Ken did a bang up job all by himself before but you peeps now are putting the cherry on top.

    Pixie at the start of this was extremely well mannered, but the rest of you felt that wasn't enough and had to piss on your own team member. That's just golden! Pun intended. c;
  • Joy
    You really don't even know who half the staff is. The one's who have been there since the beginning. Such as Angel, Neko or Dai. :P

    You're just judging Lin and some others based on the irritation they're showing about how hard they have tried getting Subeta off of their backs and only less then 3 months we already have to answer to them again. Of course some of us are going to show our anger. But you can't really based that off of who we are personally. Lin happens to have a fantastic personality...
  • I happen to like Lin quite a bit? I feel bad for her staying mashed up in your shit storm but you especially thought it would be cute to throw your drama at complete random people on VLP. Pretty sad if not pathetic.. We're not discussing any of this on Subeta, just here on a some PERSONAL blog. Keith didn't ask for anyone's opinions or invite some army like you all did.

    Now your friend Brooke and Pixie are very nice examples of Lurapets, you? You only help prove all my points even further of what I think of Ken and his site.

    So please for your own.. 'site'. Step back, take a deep breath, and think about how your acting before you post. This is nothing to lose your head over.
  • Brooke_74
    I wasn't going to say anything on this matter, but I have to disagree with you Ashely on generalizing the Lurapets staff as being un-classy and uncivil. I’m known to be a respectful, nice, and down to earth person, ask those that know me and I can say the same for those that work at Lurapets too. I've met so many wonderful, nice, and caring people there. I understand why both parties would be upset. I’ve been working for Lurapets for 10 months now and I've seen the hard work each staff has put in to the site. So I understand how they are feeling seeing this blog. Were some of their behavior right on here no, but I would have to say the same with Keith too. I personally don't like all this drama and that's one of the reasons why I wasn't going to say anything, but when my character gets attack I need to speak.
  • Now see this is exactly what I want to see more of. You're being polite and courteous while expressing your disagreement and I can see your point clearly. I completely understand where you're coming from. But I remember once when Ken and a couple of his artists were having a fight on DA all of them where in a frenzy of cussing and throwing nothing but sad childish insults when all we did as was questions. But back then I told him "Ken, you need to keep your staff on leashes." Dancing poodles might be nice for a good show but if they're known to bite better keep them muzzled. I wish more people like you would stand out more because this is the positive look that sites need.

    Bug again I see that awful dramatic behavior over and over from people labeling themselves as 'Lurapets staff!' I can't help but imagine it to be the entire group since I don't see this side [calm side] what so ever.

    Thank you for posting. C: I really appreciate it when people can calmly post their opinion without acting like a brat.
  • Bikuu
    To be honest, I've been cussed out by Ken on a few occasions. I was nothing but civil to him. He insulted me, personally, rather then the point of the conversation. And that's all I see the Lurapets staff doing here to Keith. Not that I'm saying the ENTIRE Lurapets staff has no manners, but the many posting here clearly can't keep it together. And because of past incidents, I'm not really surprised.

    Like Keith said, this is his personal blog. Lurapets feels attacked by this blog, but I'm sure Keith feels slightly attacked in a way by Lurapets. Thus the point of this blog. To him, it was necessary. He's venting about something that genuinely bothers him. I'd think that, rather than cussing him out, Lurapets staff should be trying harder to explain their points to him in a civil way. Which I appreciate you doing, though I disagree a bit.
  • Brooke_74
    All of this makes my head hurt, but yeah Bikuu we can agree to disagree. =)
  • Bikuu
    LOL you're gross. xD
  • You liiiike it~<3
  • just me
    You honestly made me laugh out loud with the above comment. :P
  • I'm glad I could make another laugh on my way out!
  • Extreme
    ITT: 16 Year old girls defending their basecamp.
  • Extreme
    ITT: 16 year old girls defending their basecamps.
  • tchequila
    There are basics, sure. Keith is not accusing Lurapets of copying the basics, but in fact, to take ideas really SPECIFIC. And, this is what bothers me.

    Lurapets needs to find its niche. Not do the same thing than other sites are doing. There are no reason for me to go to Lurapets, because everything that I can do on Lurapets, I can do elsewhere?

    Have a petsite whose focus are the pets? I have Neopets for this.
    Have a petsite with fewer users online, for when I want to relax? Misticpets suits my needs for this.
    Feeling more social? Want to talk with people, yet not having them be obsolete dingbats? I have Subeta.

    Lurapets will have to take its own spin on things. For this to happen, they have to actually work on things. Because, right now, I am not impressed by the content onsite.


    Lurapets is a ordinary petsite. One like many others, but it will never get to the top if it keeps that way.
  • Guest
    I agree with this.

    What I've been saying is that Lurapets needs time to prove this.
  • Name
    To the rest of the Lura staff posting here: I'm gonna have to agree over one thing - you're giving the site you work for a bad reputation by throwing profanities around. As long as you're on the staff team what you say will be reflected upon the actual site, so please try to do this in a mature manner, ne?
  • just me
    I have to agree with you. Their staff is all about knee jerk reactions and it really has dampened a lot of support they could have had. And why try to drag all the other petsites into this? Misticpets has been through a couple ownership changes, and I've never seen any kind of behavior from them or their staff team that even comes close to the crap that Ken has pulled (And will continue to pull). I think there was some sort of drama waaaaaay far back with Subeta, but since then, I think Mistic has gone its own way and their art is is phenomenal. Sorry for the detour, I think everyone that works for Lura should take a few minutes and decide to put their best foot forward and not embarrass their site anymore.
  • Name
    The staff aren't bad. Heck, I'm staff there. I'm gonna admit that 99% of them are actually very friendly and very easy to talk to. ^^; And I'm not biased at all because I work there, believe me. I don't let biased opinions sway me over. (;
  • just me
    Umm... yeah, the above comment really was enough to sway me. After the things I've witnessed IN the shoutbox, right on Lurapets and how many of the staff treat their members... As well as how they acted here, and in the past in regards to their owner's activities, I'll just have to keep my opinion that the staff aren't all that great. (Unless they want something from you :P)
  • keithkurson
    I've talked to people from Mistic and like them, a lot. The newer owners are VERY friendly, and are actually Subeta players themselves. :)
  • just me
    You are very right Keith. The owners have both been very amazing in the short time that they've owned the site with new content, dailies, etc. And they are so approachable! It's nice to see that they take some time out to play on Subeta still. :P (everyone needs a bit of down time) Do you know what their usernames are on Subeta?
  • Burned
    I think what people are missing here is Lurapets said `Subeta is our biggest competition, within a few years we will overcome them.`

    No other pet sites every tried to start something with Subeta, yet Ken seemed to think that his site would be better than Subeta. Yet he implements most of Subeta`s features into his own site, and has yet to show many original ideas. I believe Keith left out quite a few details that are even more incriminating. Keith did not make this post to stir the shit, many members called for it a few months ago (yes Lurapets members included).

    I highly suggest you check out the SD thread, as it has so much information that you really should know before challenging Keith.
  • Guest
    I would not even waste time signing up for a website that relates it own drama to a petsite. Thats pathetic.

    Also, I would love to see the article that you claim that Ken stated that we would surpass Subeta. Please, enlighten me.
  • The comment was from Joy. I have no screenshot, but it was quoted on other forums.

    "Even though some of you will think this is pretty much expected of me... but Lurapets. With what we have backstage I'm sure we'll be equal with Subeta in two to three years.

    We already have more now then subeta had when they were first starting out."

    My favorite part of that forecast is the assumption that Subeta will just stand still waiting on Lurapets to catch up.

    EDIT: Again, I'm not finding the original post, but I have found someone else mentioning it on VPL: Click here. I also mentioned it on VPL's forums on that same thread. We're not making this claim up.
  • jessyta
    What is pathetic is the way you will comment here but not sign your name.
  • Name
    Funny. Since you're doing that exact thing.

    My mind was just blown.
  • Burned
    I believe it was on the old VPL before the hack.
  • Guest
    That isn't proof, my dear.
  • Burned
    I love how you try and belittle people. It happened, if you don't want to believe it that's fine.
  • keithkurson
    I just tried searching for it, so yeah. It appears to have been lost.
  • Guest
    Keith, does this mean you're going to bitch at all the other petsites, too, for "copying" you? Wow, have fun with that! Let me know just exactly what it is you gain from this, please, other than a massive wankfest. You sure have a lot of free time on your hands.
  • keithkurson
    Nope, just Lurapets for now!
  • Guest
    Well, at least you can rest at ease knowing you'll have an amazing fap later tonight. Kind of gross, but that's just how you are. I'm glad people are seeing it, too!
  • Bikuu
    If you're trying to defend Lurapets, I need to tell you that you're doing an extremely poor job. Your comments are actually making me a bit disgusted. I really hope the rest of the user base has more manners than you. :/
  • just me
    Nope Bikuu, the rest of the user base aren't too far off, they have the greatest role models of course. (the staff and their illustrious leader ken) :P
  • Guest
    Lmao. So your admitting you do this for a wankfest? lololol. Mature.
  • keithkurson
    As to why I posted this, I think I've made it pretty clear in other comments and in the original post.

    I'm allowed to write about whatever I want on my personal blog. There isn't an angle or a method of "gaining" anything (though it is making those of you from lurapets who are staff members posting look... foolish :)) other than to air my personal grievances.
  • Guest
    But to connect this to your twitter to get "backup" to defend yourself :P

    You're not worth my time. Peace.
  • keithkurson
    As I said before, people who follow my twitter are interested in what I have to say, or write about. Thus, when I make a blog post (or a tumblr post, or anything else that I find remotely interesting) I tweet about it, and people come.

    I'm not sure what the problem with that is, considering that every other blogger or anyone who writes on the internet does the same thing.
  • Guest
    Alright alright. I'm done.

    Just know Keith, there will be more petsites out there. And I'm sure you're going to keep on doing this to try to keep them down.

    Have a great night.
  • keithkurson
    You've still failed to point out a single exclusive feature to Lurapets.
  • Guest
    Wow, so anxious! ...Or just desperate to copy Lura? Yeah, I can see how you would use all of this to your advantage. Good game, Keith.
  • keithkurson
    No, I'm just sitting back and giggling at the defending of Lurapets and their originality, without actually posting any bit of it.
  • Guest
    Enjoy yourself 'cuz you're twelve years old, so it's okay! I get it.
  • keithkurson
    And that's the point when I delete your ability to post on my blog.

    "Great, and you're a child. Congratulations!"

    "You're obviously ignorant."

    "Keith, does this mean you're going to bitch at all the other petsites, too, for "copying" you? Wow, have fun with that! Let me know just exactly what it is you gain from this, please, other than a massive wankfest. You sure have a lot of free time on your hands."

    "You're quite arrogant."

    Etc. You haven't added a piece of value to this entire conversation. While other staff members (I assume you are one) from Lurapets have at least tried to talk about the problem that I'm personally having, you've done nothing but talk down to people who don't share the same opinion as yourself.

    If anyone is a child, it's you. I understand that it's hard for you to see something that you don't agree with, but obviously you're without the reasoning skills to write something that isn't full of venom.

    XOXO
  • Gunblade
    Keith isn't trying to keep other pet sites down. He has stated that he welcomes the competition several times in the past. In fact, he did so in this very post: "I’m not against competition, or there being more sites in the virtual pet community. I welcome it." He just wishes other sites would attempt to build more on their ideas, rather than simply going with them as they are.
  • Guest
    I like this. Know why? Because you have no idea what you're saying. Give yourself a round of applause for speaking up as if your opinion really matters. Perhaps you should educate yourself on what is fair game and what is jealousy. As Niji says, he needs to just sit back and relax before he gives himself hemorrhoids.
  • keithkurson
    LOL. Her opinion doesn't matter, but yours does? Fantastic.
  • Gunblade
    Wow. Hostile, much?

    I really fail to see how he's "wound up" over this. Stating an opinion and mentioning something that bothers you =/= freaking out with jealously.
  • Guest
    You're obviously ignorant.
  • Corgi
  • Guest
    Then he needs to sit, watch, and relax. Petsites need a basic structure first before adding new features.

    It just started in July, afterall.
  • Imitation, the sincerest form of flattery? Hardly. It's the biggest form of laziness.
  • Guest
    | Subeta was the first site to incorporated the ‘hover’ feature for items.

    Tell me when Subeta first incorporated this, and I'll believe you.
  • Name
    Going to repost what I wanted to post in reply to your deleted comment replies.

    You're saying Lura doesn't beat Subeta in terms of some things, and you mentioned art. Sure Lura may not have a lot of things to do right now, but the art is far from incomparable to Subeta. In fact, I'd say Lura is the only petsite around with art that as good as yours. Everyone looks for different things in petsites so you can't say Subeta is better than Lura in every way.

    And if you think having a pet slot item in the cash shop is copying, you should go to Misticpets and a bunch of other sites. It's the same for them. And as for premium items, doesn't matter who came out with it first. Neo's had it since 2004 or 2003, I was a premium member back then. There's Verpets, Ichumon, Misticpets, NeuroGalaxy, and a bunch of other sites who offer premium stuff. I know your site is popular but I think you're thinking way too highly of it... Lura isn't copying everything you're doing. x.X
  • Guest
    lmfao. Oh I know another. At least Lurapets doesn't lose their server at leas 122385329 within a month. Lurapets is always up and running.
  • Kes
    What exactly counts as 'running'?

    I went there today and the same games that weren't working on the second day of operation are still broken. Also, all of my site points disappeared without warning (no random events, didn't buy anything, and didn't play games that cost anything).

    It went down within the first day or two of opening. What an exaggeration to say that it's ALWAYS up and running.

    Your programmers are pretty pathetic if they can't fix stupid shit like that, because they sure as hell aren't putting any effort into developing new features.
  • keithkurson
    Maybe if Lurapets had up to 1,000 people online at a time, they'd experience the issue that comes with having an active userbase.
  • Guest
    Maybe if you had better programmers you wouldn't have to worry about that little problem, Keith.
  • Don't you go bugging Alex, who really works 24/7 and fixes everything in a jiffy. Sometimes it takes more, but that's life.
  • keithkurson
    Let me rephrase.

    Alex is an amazing programmer, and we are currently fleshing out our development team. However, programming isn't just the major problem that Subeta faces, it faces a lot of hardware and software problems in general.

    While we do have quite a bit of funding, we aren't facebook and can't drop a million dollars on new servers everytime we see a growth spurt. We have to spend our money and resources wisely, and I think that in the past year we've decreased downtime by about 80% and are still on track to have uptime to 100% by the end of the year (which is the goal we set at the start of this year).

    We have a lot of work to do, and continue to do it, however it's hard for staff to stay optimistic about things that we work on when we know that two weeks later it'll be on Lurapets. ;)
  • Linkitty
    I don't think the problem here is if subeta server is down sometimes. It's normal when we talk about a site that sometimes has 1000+ users playing.

    The problem here is that there is no need to start a drama war between two sites when almost all ideas have been done on other petsites or websites. A lot of people can think about a mermaid with a shell complement without taking the idea from another site. When you are blaming that we have a mermaid costume, you're blaming to the artist who decided to do it, and that's not fair, since you don't have the copyright over all mermaids on the world (just an example)

    I'm really tired of all that. I'm tired of thinking about an item to draw, and have to go to a subeta databasable to see if it is too similar to any item there in order to draw or not to draw it.
  • keithkurson
    The thing is -- that we were the first site to have a lot of those features. You can say, oh, all games have saving features! Does that mean that Zelda (which had the first game saving-feature) shouldn't be praised and/or looked to for that feature?

    Hiding behind a lot of other copycats isn't the right way to move forward, or make your site respectable when it got off on the wrong foot in the first place, with an owner trying to steal artists from other websites. I'd think that Lurapets would be trying EXTRA hard to make sure that everything they did was LURAPETS after that whole fiasco.

    I'm not blaming the artists at all, and I understand how hard it is (as our artists have to do the same thing ;)) but it wasn't just the mermaid costume in question, it was the whole COSTUME TRUNK idea, with the mermaid thrown in (since it's the one on the front page atm)
  • Guest
    You're quite arrogant. You cannot claim an idea and you cannot claim to be the first site to have said features. It isn't a matter of copying. If this were the case, there would be many other users like you running about screaming, "YOU COPIED ME! YOU COPIED ME!" at other websites who have used the same ideas/features. Which, by the way, is immature and unprofessional. Get a grip, Keith.
  • keithkurson
    Your comments are nothing but negative, so if there is another one, I'll probably just block you from posting.

    Coming in and going YELL YELL YELL MY VOICE IS LOUDER THAN YOURS BUT YOU'RE SO ARROGANT EVEN THOUGH I'M COMING TO YOUR BLOG TO YELL YELL YELL ABOUT HOW MUCH YOUR OPINION ISN'T IMPORTANT AND IS UNPROFESSIONAL ON YOUR BLOG YELL YELL YELL really, really isn't the best way to win an argument.
  • Guest
    Wow, who says I'm yelling? You're the one using the capitals, buddy.
  • keithkurson
    Oh, I was just pointing out how all of your comments have been. Emphasize was mine, of course.
  • Guest
    Great, and you're a child. Congratulations!
  • Linkitty
    I see your point here.

    Anyways, if everyone thinks like this, the first site with a premium account like thing should be blaming all the sites that have premium accounts, because it was their own idea, and were the first ones to have it. I'm ok with you on the costume trunks thing, but I won't agree with the collectibles thing or with the idea that everything on our site is the same that on subeta.

    As far as I have read on the off site forums, all team is working to do thing original and out of the box, but we can't help for example to have halloween candies all around the site in halloween. There are things that are too generic to don't to have them.

    subeta takes ideas from other sites too, you said it on your own post. Some things wasn't an original subeta idea, but subeta implemented them, and they work, and it's great. Let other petsites do the same. Really, it's not worth a drama.
  • keithkurson
    Again, I don't have a problem wiht (and said this in my first post) with sites borrowing ideas form each other, I admit that Subeta has done it.

    My problem is with a site that's WHOLE EXISTENCE is copied from somewhere.
  • Guest
    It isn't, Keith. Lmao.
  • keithkurson
    AND YET, You still haven't posted one original piece of content on Lurapets!
  • Name
    Waterfall, Unique Quest, Unique pet themes saw nowhere else....
  • Guest
    We started 2 months ago, Keith. I remember when subeta started it looked JUST LIKE neopets.
  • Bikuu
    And now it doesn't. But it probably did because when Subeta first started, Neopets was probably the major petsite out there and there probably weren't many at the time.

    Now, though, there are PLENTY of pet sites. And Subeta has come VERY far since then. It looks nothing like Neopets now. So I don't see your point. Unless you're saying that Lurapets is like Subeta now, but give ti a few years and it won't? If so, that's just silly.
  • Name
    The point is, Lurapets has only just opened. So right now, it just has that typical template petsite feel to it.
    It needs time to grow into its own site, original content is something difficult to come up with, as so many things have already been done.
    It's difficult for anything to grow, when people keep pruning all the flowers off.
  • Linkitty
    Just one thing I forgot to add.

    I understand you can be angry with the owner for obvious things. But lurapets isn't just Ken. lurapets is all the work from all the staff, you that own a petsite should know that, and blaming the site, you're blaming the work of a lot of people that is trying to do something worth it.
  • Guest
    .
  • Guest
    agreed in full, Linbebe <3
  • Guest
    .
  • Gunblade
    Admitting you're on Lurapets staff while cussing at the owner of another pet site? Yep, that's professional.
  • Linkitty
    Well, she's not the one who started the drama.
  • Kes
    If the Lurapets staff had a unique thought in their heads, there wouldn't BE any drama. :D
  • Gunblade
    Regardless, cussing is not the way to express an opinion. People tend to look far more intelligent if they can manage without doing so.
  • Guest
    ///
  • Gunblade
    And I quote: "Get the fuck off of your high horse. I'm on the Lurapets staff and I know for a fact that there are ideas that aren't released yet that you guys haven't done."
  • Guest
    I guess I let that slip. My bad :) I'm just sticking up for what I believe in.


    After all, my opinion is just as valid as the next persons. ;D
  • pieface
    So...you're allowed to stick up for what you believe in, but Keith isn't?

    I find your lack of logic...disturbing.
  • I couldn't agree more with this statement.
  • keithkurson
    Ahh, then you're aware of the multiple times that it's been said "lets do this because Subeta does" in the staff area? I've been forwarded a few screenshots...

    I'm not having a hissyfit. As I said in my original comment to you, I'm allowed to have an opinion, and I'm allowed to post it on my personal blog.

    I'm not asking you to read or agree with my opinion, but it's a little childlike coming and having a hissyfit (on your high horse?) on my blog. :(
  • Guest
    .
  • keithkurson
    Uhhhhh.

    Point me to another time that I've done this, or let me know of another site that I've said this about? Trying to paint me into a corner (oh it's SO you to delete comments!) as the bad guy isn't going to work.

    Also, again, not responding to my original question about one piece of unique on Lurapets, something that is absolutely 'Lurapets'.

    Finally, my users aren't directed to this blog. They aren't told to come here, and I don't even link to it on Subeta, at all. The only place it's linked is from my twitter, and if people are following me on Twitter, it means they care what I have to say.
  • Guest
    You have a whole SECTION dedicated to defending Subeta, Keith.

    You've also done thing whole charade to Misticpets and tons of other petsites
  • keithkurson
    Right, link me to other posts where I've defended Subeta?
  • Guest
    Mymy. You really are predictable. Deleting comments so that you don't have any opinions to your post? isn't that the reason for a PERSONAL BLOG?
  • keithkurson
    Actually, I'm not deleting comments. I upgrade to DISQUS, and it's currently importing comments, going to take awhile ;) Hence why I was waiting for them to come back up. (They're still there... just. not enabled)

    Anyway. I've already responded to your post, just wait for it to come back up ;).
  • Guest
    Keith, this blog was completely unnecessary. The petsite world has been quiet for sometime now, and you just want something to nitpick to cause drama.

    Now I played subeta for the past 3 years. I love it. However, I know that there are only so many ideas in the world. Subeta had lovely ideas, and I know for a fact that you can’t claim that you started one thing or another. There are so many people bubbling with ideas that they might have came up with it first! I bet the users of Subeta were craving that feature for a while and then someone had the guts to throw it out there!

    Now, honestly I find this whole thing immature. If you are so confident in your site being #1, then why bother posting this blog? It shows you are unprofessional, immature, and self conscious of competition between other websites. I understand if you feel someone took your ideas, but it doesn’t mean you go and cry off into a blog and write about it. Be mature. Stand up. And move on.
  • UnknownPerson
    ...Lura's art quality is indeed very good. Different people look for different things in a site, so you can't say what beats what.

    Also if you think Lura copied the cash shop, go to Misticpets, Ichumon, Neopets (they made this in 2004 or 2003, I was a premium user those years back), Nutrinopets (even though it kind of died... haha), Verpets, NeuroGalaxy... this can go on and on. :/ And putting a pet slot item in the cash shop NO WAY shows they copied you... I'm pretty sure everyone can agree with me on that. Again, if you think that's copying go to Misticpets and a bunch of other sites, because they have it the same way. x.x

    Just cause a petsite started later and has something similar to you does not mean they're copying.
  • keithkurson
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Lurapets doesn't have great art. I think that the art is very much above most virtual pet sites, however it's my personal opinion that Subeta has the best art (just like I'm sure that a staff member from Lurapets would say that Lurapets has the best art ;))
  • Bob Marley
    I think it is very immature of you to do this. Nobody cares. And It's really stupid of you to frame other sites. Do you have any idea how many pet sites are out there? Jesus christ. Stop causing drama and just shut up. By the way, lurapets so beats subeta. (: kbye.
  • Name
    Are you aware that there are copyright laws etc protecting things as simple as the "look and feel" of a website design? Just the layout design. Laws are made regarding these things, and if government and legal authorities care about creative/intellectual property rights, it must be pretty important, yes? It seems your idea of maturity would be to simply ignore every violation because to even mention it - no matter how rational and respectful the manner - would invite your contempt. Meanwhile your own lack of maturity and rationality shows in your comments. (this is directed at many of the commentators here, not just one) It is Keith's perfect right to be upset about this and express it in his personal blog, but the REPLIES bashing him for it are what cause drama... so listen to your own advice and "just shut up." =p
  • If nobody cares, why are you responding (and other people?)

    Do you know how many pet sites there are out there, that have been around as long as Subeta? Not many.

    Also, I'd like to know where Lurapets beats Subeta. Not in the amount of users, hits, users online, quality of art, etc. I'm not sure what they 'beat' Subeta at.
  • anonymous
    Oh my. What a show off. You still have the maturity of a 6 year old. For a website that just started, you really like to try anything to bring it down by going "OH, WELL I HAVE MORE USERS, HITS, FEATURES,BLAHBLAH."

    Grow the fuck up.
  • Name
    Those comments were only made in reply to YOUR bringing it up. If you hadn't made such a stupid and absurd statement as "Lurapets so beats subeta", his reply would not have been necessary.

    People like this come on someone's personal blog, make ridiculous inflammatory statements, make it necessary for the attacked individual to reply in defense, and then point fingers and accuse him of immaturity...
  • pieface
    Because you're clearly showing a massive level of maturity in your post, amirite? O:
  • Linkitty
    First off, I've been playing subeta for 3 years now, and I love it. But I find this a bit off.

    You can't copyright ideas. That's all. Lot of sites have advent calendar, if lurapets does this feature for christmas, will you think it has copied you? The first human avatar based feature wasn't subeta, as the first monthly collections wasn't subeta's one, it was on gaia, and subeta adapted it, and we can say that lurapets adapted it too.

    What has to do a star plushie with a medal? Deviantart has subscriptions, subeta has gold accounts, lurapets has premium. Sorry, but I can't name too much sites that doesn't have any way of leveled up account for money.

    I'm a bit tired of that. And sorry to say that, but it's hilarious to talk about ripping ideas, when your some of your staff takes designs for clothing from deviantart artists without asking before.
  • Bikuu
    No, you can't copyright ideas. But I like to think it's a better idea to think up your own.

    And yes, one of our artists made an outfit based off of one of Loish's drawings. Not only did that outfit happen once, but Loish approved of it and it was named after her. Both artists were completely understanding and mature about it. Please don't make it sound like we've copied a million ideas from other devArt artists.

    Llike Ashi said, there's a million different ways to draw -everything-. Personally, I find the multiple pearled necklace, long wavy blue hair, and shell hair clip to be QUITE obvious.

    This is just my opinion, but usually when some people draw things, they look it up on other competing sites to make sure they are NOT copying them. And the way I see it, Lurapets is making sure that they ARE.
  • Right, the problem is that all the ideas you mentioned, we have used or been inspired by other sites, but we BUILT on them, we made them unique to Subeta.

    The collections on Lurapets, are identical to the old donation presents (that lasted 4 years ;)) on Subeta.

    The human avatar feature WAS based off Subeta, as it has all the features that Subeta'a has (generally speaking) that gaia and other avatar-generating sites don't have. I guess Lurapets thought of those ideas on their own?

    And, as I said. We have 'premium' or upgrade accounts before any other virtual pet site.

    Also, you failed to do the thing I asked for in my post, which is mention one feature unique to Lurapets, or that was created at Lurapets and adapted by other sites. ;)
  • Linkitty
    Sorry, forgot to add.

    OMG! a mermaid! wtf, lurapets can't think of a mermaid without seeing subeta's mermaid first! and both have mermaid fin! let's make drama =x=
  • Ashi.J
    Really @"UnknownPerson"? There are millions of ways to draw mermaids. Trust me. I've had lots of fun going through that phase, but couple of the accessories on the Lura compared to Subeta's? To close. I couldn't help but roll my eyes. I know Ken is rather.. obsessive with Subeta, but really the kid needs to stop looking in this pot for all his ingredients. There are lots of other cook books out there! The day he makes his OWN dish I'll stop looking down on him.

    I even went ahead onto SubetaDrama for you @unknown.
    http://i36.tinypic.com/2z5lwlt.jpg
    The head dress/accessory and necklace? Again. Millions of different ways to draw and accessorize a mermaid/man.

    I really am happy to see Keith standing up for himself a bit and he didn't even go over board at all. I believe this was completely necessary to be said out loud. Just to point out the complete obvious others are ignoring. C:

    Keep up the great work Keith, you and your staff is amazing.
  • UnknownPerson
    I don't think it's hard to think of a mermaid HA outfit... not to mention yours and Lura's look very different. Also the hover over thing is very common, I can dig around for about five+ other sites that have it. And you have a magical plushie for pet slots, Lura has the collar.... why is it copying? Just cause it gives an extra pet slot and is in the cash shop? D:

    I'm confused, TBH. Something like that 99% of sites would implement in the cash shop, it's a big thing to have an extra pet slot. I'm not trying to attack Subeta or you, really. I ADORE Subeta and have been a loyal member for almost four years now. Just curious. ^_^;

    I agree though that Lura could've given the monthly collectibles different names, but the name monthly collectibles originated from Gaia, not Sub. I guess the eleven items and you get one randomly is kinda Subeta-like but it isn't hard to think of that. @_@ I hope you don't think I'm attacking, I'm just saying what I think!
  • Right, and what was the first site that had the hover over thing?

    Another thing is that confidential people that have formally (or currently) work for Lurapets have shown me AIM conversations and board posts in which it's very clear that the main focus is Subeta.

    And the reason for the multiple pet slot thing (regardless that Subeta was the first site WITH a cash shop -- before neopets or gaia or any site like that ;)) is that we were the first site to choose to charge for extra pet slots. It's something that was VERY unique to Subeta. Regardless of the item used for it, it's something that WE came up with.
  • anonymous
    Keith, this blog was completely necessary. The petsite world has been quiet for sometime now, and you just want something to nitpick to cause drama.

    Now I played subeta for the past 3 years. I love it. However, I know that there are only so many ideas in the world. Subeta had lovely ideas, and I know for a fact that you can't claim that you started one thing or another. There are so many people bubbling with ideas that they might have came up with it first! I bet the users of Subeta were craving that feature for a while and then someone had the guts to throw it out there!

    Now, honestly I find this whole thing immature. If you are so confident in your site being #1, then why bother posting this blog? It shows you are unprofessional, immature, and self conscious of competition between other websites. I understand if you feel someone took your ideas, but it doesn't mean you go and cry off into a blog and write about it. Be mature. Stand up. And move on.
  • And finally, I'm not sure how this blog comes across as me 'crying'. I'm writing a blog post about something that personally bothers me. I'm allowed to do that; write on my personal blog about something that bothers me.

    This isn't the Agoge Inc blog, or the Subeta blog, this is the Keith Kurson blog that is my opinion on things. I'm not crying, I'm just pointing out something that has bothered me.
  • anonymous
    Why yes, this is your personal blog. But this hasn't been the first time you've whined about a website.

    For example Misticpets. You personally attacked them and harassed them over their artists and features.


    This is nothing new from Keith
  • Name
    I have such a reflex irritation trigger when someone uses the word "Whine". Every time someone points out an objective fact, people will accuse of "whining", and the word has gone from overused to really bleeping annoying. Meanwhile, I think this blog entry is as objective as anyone can be under the circumstances. You think Keith's comments qualify as an 'attack'--are you kidding? This is ridiculously mild, considering someone's creative work is being raped here. Obviously you have never created anything in your life, and then had it ganked, or you would understand. If you think it unusual that someone running a virtual pets site should ever mention or take issue with another pets site, you're pretty clueless. And Subeta sure has been a popular topic over there at 'Lurapets', before this was ever mentioned here, so your comments are not only unreasonably hostile but hypocritical as well.
  • I think you meant that it was completely unnecessary.

    Regardless, I think that it was. You can only stand by for so long looking at someone profit from your ideas.

    I'm not saying that there is some fountain of idea's that means that each site should be completely original. I'm aware that just being in the virtual pet industry means that there is going to be a lot of redundancy between the sites.

    My main point is that from day one all that Lurapets has done is try to hang on to the coat tails of Subeta, by releasing everything that our players enjoy. While that's a great strategy (because it obviously works) it's not something that you want to build your company (or your reputation) on.
  • anonymous
    I think Lurapets has done a great job at getting members... and they are coming up with great ways of keeping their members. You have no idea what they are coming up with! How can you assume that they are copying your ideas then actually thinking up something of their own? They JUST started.

    And yes, that was a typo. You tend to make those too.
  • Pixie
    Hmm, it makes more sense when you put it like that, I can understand your frustration. We are actually making an effort to be original, I hope we don't trouble you in the future xP
  • @Pixie I don't blame you for enjoying Lurapets, or working on it. And I can understand from a players perspective just enjoying a game, regardless of where the content came from.

    This argument was mostly from a content 'creators' standpoint, where I (and my entire staff) have worked hard to build all of the features that we offer, only to have someone step in, copy it, and prosper off of it.
  • Name
    Some people just can't handle a civil discussion, sincere apologies for all the disgusting comments left by people here, they certainly do not reflect any of the views held by any petsite. The trolls should go back under their bridges now =P
  • Pixie
    Oh and hey, major kudos to you for actually putting your opinion right out there, rather than pussyfooting around and talking behind backs like so many people do.
  • Pixie
    I play both lurapets and subeta and I enjoy them both equally. We have a good team of staff who work hard on everything, and I'm sure that we'll get some 'original' ideas as time goes on.
    As long as the gameplay is good and the community is nice, I honestly do not give a crap about who copied from who, and I'm sure there are many like-minded pet site players out there.
    I wish you the best of luck with your site, you've built what I can easily say is the best and most dynamic petsite out there at the moment.
  • Ashley
    Keith, good job! :D

    I've been on Subeta for almost a year, so I can't say anything about how much Subeta has grown in the past five-sum years.
    However, I agree and give copyrights to Taylor, "You’ve opened up a more matured and real environment for the users to interact in, and you could not have a better staff. They are not faceless entities throughout the site, and are in all honesty quite pleasurable to talk to. When filling out a problem ticket last night, it was not even five minutes before I had a response, and only two minutes after said response, the problem was solved and I was wished a happy weekend."
    It's true.
    Lurapets will be known as a Subeta-copycat. The owner of Lurapets (Ken, did you say his name was?) will be, like you said, called out. Not only by you, but by almost every Subeta-fan out there.

    So, just know, we love you.
    And you're better.
    Because you're original. :)
  • Keith, you have all the right to defend what you and Subeta Staff have created. Though I have been member of subeta for a little more than three years, it's been the last year only that i've been really REALLY active, and it was when i became completely addicted to it!

    Honestly, I feel SO PROUD of how much subeta has grown, to its benefit. All the changes you've made, additions you've given us, the upgrades, the events, the way you and the UA stay in touch with us, they way you TREAT us, the users, show that subeta is ABOVE anything and everything out there.

    If there had been subeta back in 2002-2003 i probably would not have gotten so much into Neo, but am greatful for that, as it was some NF who pulled me into Subeta the first time, and last year, when i made my full return to the site.

    After all this rambling, all i have to say, Keith, is that there will probably be a LONG LONG time until another site can do what you guys do. I'm sure you feel proud of the site, just as I'm proud to be a member. I'll stick with you guys, and when the time comes, or the opportunity shows itself, it'll be subeta the site i'll defend and stick to, and not any other.

    Thanks for everything XOXO
  • Keith, all I have to say is good for you. ;D I've been a member of Subeta for 3+ years and I've sung nothing but praise for the hard work and determination you and your staff possess. I've eagerly watched you grow and flourish within the virtual pet industry, and frankly, now nearly every other site fails in comparison.
    You've opened up a more matured and real environment for the users to interact in, and you could not have a better staff. They are not faceless entities throughout the site, and are in all honesty quite pleasurable to talk to. When filling out a problem ticket last night, it was not even five minutes before I had a response, and only two minutes after said response, the problem was solved and I was wished a happy weekend.
    Subeta, it seems, will always be superior, and the envious sites struggling to keep their domain will always wish to be something they are not - original, brilliant, friendly, and just all around awesome. ;D
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